I've been playing Egypt for a while now, trying to use different units and strategies trying to find what's best, but it seems pretty much every quest since I unlocked them it's come down to just building a bunch of War Elephants and wrecking everything. They have no weaknesses, no counter, they are effective against everything and at anything. Ridiculous health, fast, AoE, massive damage, siege, and they only need food and gold to build. I can't think of a single situation where another (ground combat) unit would do better with the same resources, especially pop.
I dunno, maybe make them 10 pop each instead of 4. They have 10 times as much health as an infantry unit, and can do more than 10 times the damage in AoE situations.
And i was considering to suggest give them the ability to trample infantry instantdead, hm..
You sure they have no weakness? Ever fighted vs spearmen or camels, i mean anti-cavalry units? I never did yet.
Spearmen have no effect on them at all. They die too fast. 3 elephants can wipe out a huge swarm of spearmen almost instantly because of their huge AoE.
I just fought a map this morning where the AI built almost nothing but huge masses of camel riders and they fell like wheat before a scythe to a small group of war elephants. Double damage doesn't mean anything against something with such a ridiculous pool of health. 20 DPS or 40 DPS, what does the unit with 2500 health care? The answer is not at all, so no they have no weaknesses, at all.
Spearmen are not effective counter once elephants grow in number of 3 or more. The splash damage then counters the high number of spearmen you have to use.
Camels fare a whole lot better and with proper upgrades I think they will remain as the most straight forward option. Another interesting counter is melee units with high hp with snare with priests in the back converting.
But OP was talking about singleplayer... where you can win via lot of different tactics. Not the best reason to bring up unit balancing.
|||To be fair, 1 elephant costs ~10 spearmen, so you are expected to be using quite a few spearmen vs it.|||
The point about single player and balancing is not that it's a strategy that works, but that it works so much better than every other strategy. By magnitudes. Just a handful of war elephants can take an enemy base without casualties, and raze it in a few seconds. The exp pop-ups from wiping multiple buildings and units out at the same time are so fast it looks like an arcade game. It just feels broken. There's a rock-paper-scissors element with pretty much every other unit, but elephants are dynamite and just explode into the enemy wiping everything out.
The food and gold cost isn't really important, they cost 10 times as much but they pretty much never die so you aren't replacing them constantly. Any fight with infantry is going to result in many deaths even if you win. Also pop very quickly becomes the most important resource and at 4 pop the elephants are a steal.
|||A Set Priest can be scary. His abnormally large range will turn them rogue and revert their HP to a measly 1917 from the likely 4000+ that Championresearch and items have provided it. It doesn't outright stop them, but if guarded well, they can make them mad. Greek Priests are of course better and Set Priests often aren't very effective inmostregards otherwise.
|||I've played around with the conversion stuff a little and it doesn't seem to work very often at it's base value and I've already seen some gear that provides significant protection from it. They'd probably get one chance to confuse my elephants before they are turned into blood splats, but I haven't really fought against them yet.
|||What level are these quests on that you say you can destroy with elephants? I am currently playing Greek right now so I don't know.
|||15ish. I'm on the Nubia campaign now.
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At that level, for the Greek counterpart, I just know that it hardly matters what I mass, they die anyways. I choose Hoplites since I have the best gears for them, and they are all around good. Sure they need replacement unlike Battlecruisers/Carriers War Elephants, but there's nothing difficult about 6 shift+D. I may need the occasional battering ram since Hoplites don't do bonus vs buildings, so have a difficult time vs fortresses, but other than that it's all good. I am surprised you say pop count is the issue at that level, since I usually move out at 80-100 pop at that level, and rarely do I max out. I just keep rallying troops in from 2 or 3 barracks and they pretty much just die.
An ingenious fix that was used in SC2 was to put timers on just about everything, and have some missions force you to attack/move out very often, sometimes within the first 5 minutes of the game. That prevents you from sitting back and massing your OP unit. I wish they have more missions like that here.
|||Except, I'm the Egyptians producing the elephants..............
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There are many ways to counter war elephants and imo they aren't over powered at all. A few examples being hetarios; Somatophylaxs combined with archers; infantry with a few priests, siege etc.
To be honest, you can't really judge if something is overpowered when you are only level 15 because everything destroys the enemy at that level.
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